Revenue Mind

Put the Shovel Down | Amber Hollingsworth, Master Addiction Counselor

From accidentally landing in addiction counseling with “no life jacket” to building a whole career on one radical idea, that people recover better when treatment isn’t a miserable experience, Master Addiction Counselor Amber Hollingsworth traces how growing up surrounded by addiction shaped her relationship-first approach. Founder of Hope for Families Recovery Center and creator of the YouTube channel Put the Shovel Down, Amber joins Jolie to riff on why calling herself the client’s “defense attorney” instead of their probation officer earns more trust than tough love, why there’s no bad reason to get sober, and why the driven, high-performing execs who can’t turn their brain off so often drink to do it. Her throughline: stop waiting for rock bottom. You can just put the shovel down.
Key Takeaways• Not being in recovery herself became her edge: it forced her to listen deeper than most.• Whatever you grow up in feels normal: she didn’t name her own family’s addiction until she was in the field.• Counseling school barely covers addiction: one class, a couple of 12-step visits, then you’re on your own.• “Defense attorney,” not probation officer: be on the client’s side and trust follows.• Make treatment something people want to show up to (her teens got sober just to stay mentors).• There’s no bad reason to get sober: kids, marriage, even prison all count.• Drop the pressure to fix everyone: it’s why counselors burn out in ~5 years, and why she hasn’t.• Driven execs drink to shut their brain off: stop fighting your operating system instead of becoming someone else.• Ignore the doom stats: people beat this every day, and 10 tries is normal, not failure.• Stop waiting for rock bottom: put the shovel down before you burn every bridge.
Timestamps00:00 Intro / “Just take a breath”00:38 “What makes you you?”01:47 Not realizing she was a business owner until the first year’s tax bill02:47 How she got into the field by accident: teacher to counselor to addiction program03:30 Designing a teen addiction program with zero experience: “no life jacket, no nothing”04:37 Growing up around addiction and never naming it05:36 “Whatever you grow up in feels normal” + wishing for a better origin story06:20 “Are you in recovery?”: the first question clients ask, and why not being in recovery became her edge07:49 What counseling school actually teaches about addiction08:20 Flying under the radar: building an IOP teens wanted to attend + the mentor program09:42 How she got them to come back: “like them and they’ll like you back”10:30 The “defense attorney” approach: on the client’s side, not their probation officer11:25 Jolie’s IOP story and four and a half years sober12:39 What brought Jolie to program: her rock bottom14:29 There’s no bad reason to get sober15:27 Clients who return across life stages: the goal is a good experience, not forever-sobriety17:12 Comorbidity and having more than one addiction18:07 Why counselors burn out (the 5-year lifespan) and how she drops the pressure20:33 Burnout tips: diagnose the real source, then reframe21:26 Her niche now: businessmen who drink and driven A-type professionals22:37 Stigma vs. ambivalence: what actually keeps people from getting help24:16 The non-alcoholic / mocktail movement25:36 One thing to tell someone in active addiction: ignore the negative stats26:43 “One day at a time” and meetings as a refresh28:01 What high performers most need to hear28:30 Why driven people drink: fighting your own “operating system”30:16 Square peg, round hole: work with who you are30:57 Where to find Amber + the meaning of “Put the Shovel Down”
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LinksAmber Hollingsworth / Put the Shovel Down: https://www.youtube.com/@PutTheShovelDownHope for Families Recovery Center: https://www.familyrecoveryacademy.online/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From Trauma to Triumph | Hacia Atherton, Author of the Billion Dollar Blind $pot

A 600kg horse landed on Hacia Atherton while she was training for international dressage. What followed: six months in the hospital, 30-plus procedures, and 117 days of work just to stand for ten seconds. She studied for her CPA exams from a hospital bed, went on to earn a master’s in positive psychology, founded an organization fighting for women in the trades, and wrote a book about the billions hiding in plain sight in workplace culture. She and Jolie get into the emotional cage the Industrial Revolution built, why telling men they’re allowed to feel means nothing without the tools to do it, and why belonging, not titles or diversity programs, is what actually moves the needle.
Key Takeaways• 1,300 lbs of horse, 30+ procedures, six months in hospital.• 117 days of work just to stand for ten seconds.• Grit got her through; curiosity unlocked the recovery.• She left rehab early for a CPA exam; they called a psychiatrist.• Breath was the one thing she controlled. It became her anchor.• Factory-era economics built the tough-it-out archetype we still live.• We told men they could feel, but never gave them the tools.• Disengagement costs the world ~9% of global GDP.
Timestamps00:00 Intro01:17 Law, and a pony named Honey Babe02:40 The accident: 600kg in slow motion04:10 Six months, 30+ procedures, and dehumanization09:43 A PhD in turning trauma into triumph10:11 CPA exams from a hospital bed13:17 The book as anchor, breath as control17:57 Emotional pain is as real as a broken arm21:41 The billion-dollar blind spot in culture26:21 Masculine vs. feminine leadership33:05 The SAD acronym and why words carry weight34:09 Belonging as the real fix39:18 Outro: find Hacia and her book
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LinksHacia Atherton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haciaatherton/Empowered Women in Trades: https://ewitrades.com/The Billion Dollar Blind Spot: https://www.haciaatherton.com/billion-dollar-blindspotJolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Ride With The Unexpected | Heather Bell, VP of Sales at Vector

From layoffs and COVID teaching her what’s actually controllable, to a husband’s truth bomb that finally broke a years-long pattern of “riding it out,” Heather Bell traces the line from people-pleasing grit to self-responsibility at work and at home. She and Jolie riff on why mental health is a revenue metric, not a side quest; what it actually took to land a job with her own list of non-negotiables. And why “they just hire good people” is the only diversity strategy that’s ever worked for her.
Key Takeaways• Layoffs and a shifting economy aren’t a referendum on your grit.• Grit is the #1 thing to look for, because it can’t be taught.• Write down non-negotiables before any job search begins.• Burnout’s long runway: pumping in her car, sleepless nights, still going out to sell.• Her husband naming the pattern broke years of “riding it out.”• Financial success means little if you’re not present for it.• Being wanted because she’s a woman is a red flag, not a win.• Send the prospect elsewhere if you can’t actually help them.
Timestamps00:00 Intro00:48 Why mental health matters in revenue02:29 What makes you you? Blue-collar roots, hard work, family03:26 Giving her kids a better life04:24 COVID’s silver lining: flexibility and presence05:49 Did she always want kids?07:50 The pressure on women to do it all09:24 Finding the right room: non-negotiables and a 50% women team12:18 Diversity that doesn’t need to be talked about13:41 What women bring to sales: patience and real listening14:45 Solving the problem over making the sale15:20 Give first, without expectation17:06 Ego, scarcity, and letting an opportunity go17:45 How she got into sales18:43 Parents’ lessons and the layoff that reset her24:29 Can you teach grit?26:51 Her most burned-out seasons30:13 Getting back to happy32:42 Leading with expectations and psychological safety34:44 How bad bosses shape you36:43 The boss who gave her a month’s heads-up37:59 Forces you can’t beat: AI, economy, layoffs40:03 Ride with the unexpected41:37 Where to find Heather
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LinksHeather Bell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherbell-sales/Vector: https://www.vector.co/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Stay Grounded | Anthony Morell, Senior Manager, Digital Marketing at MRC

From breaking down the “polished corporate box” to rebuilding identity through faith, community, and self-responsibility, Anthony Morell shares what helped him move from people-pleasing to authenticity: online and off. He and Jolie riff on why healing work is heavy (but worth it), how to catch burnout before it catches you, and what Anthony’s “hard season” operating manual looks like: get fed, get out of the house, move your body, and don’t isolate.
Key Takeaways• Faith as a filter for decisions, relationships, and healing.• Community > isolation: be for others what you didn’t always have growing up.• Authenticity is less exhausting than managing perception.• People-pleasing breaks when you take responsibility for your own wellbeing.• From external approval to internal conviction (and values-led living).• Daily anchors slip, isolation increases, heaviness compounds when burned out.• The work you do when it’s hard builds the person you become.• Hard-season playbook: treat + fresh air + movement + real conversations.
Timestamps00:00 Intro00:22 LinkedIn, consistency, and building community over chasing the algorithm01:23 “What makes you you?”04:13 Breaking the attachment to image (the “polished box” corporate taught us)06:44 People-pleasing → self-responsibility (and what fatherhood changed)09:42 Finding your voice on LinkedIn: professional, but not performative12:42 Jolie’s recovery journey and the reality of rewiring your brain16:55 Values: faith, community, family, generosity, and depth over small talk20:23 Dream community: hard truths, accountability, and diverse perspectives25:33 Early burnout signals: (habits, isolation, heaviness)34:16 Stay grounded when the ground is shaking35:58 Operating manual for Anthony in a hard season: treats, get out, work out42:52 Where to find Anthony
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LinksAnthony Morell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-m-78a1b6323/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Lead Your Life | Robert LoCascio, Founder of LivePerson

Rob LoCascio (founder/former CEO of LivePerson) joins Jolie to riff on purpose, grit, and what it really takes to build for the long haul, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. From sleeping on an Ikea couch during LivePerson’s earliest days (and still keeping the couch as a reminder) to building two new AI startups, Rob shares why “certainty + control” can quietly destroy founders, and how reconnecting with God helps him cut through the noise, lead with humility, and build technology that brings families closer (instead of pulling them apart).
Key Takeaways• The couch years: two years living in an office• Helping at a homeless shelter reframed “feeling sorry for yourself.”• Grit is in everyone if you’re willing to be somewhere uncertain enough to grow.• Spiritual practice can elevate the conversation beyond your own head.• Building products that strengthen community/connection, not just utility.• Kids + screens: the “scroll” is engineered addiction; creation is the antidote.• KID’s startup philosophy: kids use AI to create stories, art, and music with parents.• If AI is getting “smarter,” it’s often because we keep feeding it our knowledge.• Certainty, control, and ego, and why letting go doesn’t kill ambition.• Rob’s deck-of-cards reality check: gratitude beats comparison.• The closing reminder: don’t follow your life, lead it.
Timestamps00:00 Intro / full-circle LivePerson moment01:24 “What makes you, you?”02:50 The “never quit” trait, and how it shows up in business03:14 Sleeping on the couch: the early LivePerson story05:45 Therapy + volunteering: perspective, humility, and resilience07:13 Can grit be taught?09:05 “Put people in uncertainty and they’ll adapt”09:37 New chapter: two startups + young kids + building again10:30 Cutting through the noise: getting closer to God11:26 Jolie’s 12-step lens: higher power as connection14:03 Purpose, community, and the question Rob couldn’t answer before15:12 Why these two companies feel more “purpose-aligned”17:47 LivePerson vs. now: utility vs. human connection18:00 KID and “Bring Back the Bond”19:53 The iPad-at-3AM story: screens as a drug for kids20:04 How KID aims to change screen time22:38 “Own your intelligence”: personal AI and reclaiming your data24:50 AI safety and why kid-first design matters25:48 COPPA + building for children the right way27:25 Obsessive founders and addictive personalities29:22 The deadliest founder traits: certainty + control + ego30:56 Learning it the hard way33:59 “There’s a CEO above you”: surrendering control without losing ambition38:46 The deck-of-cards analogy: gratitude over comparison41:30 Social media illusions + dot-com déjà vu43:31 Lead it. Don’t follow it.45:05 Where to find Rob
Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number.
LinksRobert LoCascio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rlocascio/LivePerson: https://www.liveperson.com/KID: https://www.kidco.ai/Uare.ai: https://www.uare.ai/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Be Unapologetically You | Meghann Misiak (Sales Magic with Meg)

In this episode, Jolie Shapiro sits down with Meghann (the self-described “Sales Witch,” now Sales Magic with Meg) to unpack what happens when high performance turns into survival mode, and what it looks like to rebuild from burnout without abandoning ambition. They talk about intuition, tarot, somatics + chakras, and why the most “professional” thing you can do in sales (and on LinkedIn) is stop pretending you’re a robot. Meghann also shares a practical framework for “healthy hustle”: intention first, tactics second, so your sales process aligns with who you actually want to be.
Key Takeaways• Meghann embraces her “Sales Witch” identity as her real edge.• Burnout can hit as a moment (not just months): shutdown, numbness, heaviness.• Body signals are data: stress can show up physically in different ways.• Somatic + energetic frameworks can help as mirrors for what’s under the surface.• Tarot as archetypes: the “death” card as endings → new beginnings.• Burnout recovery can take years: rewiring how you work isn’t a quick fix.• SaaS culture rewards the mask: “push through” becomes a slippery slope.• Industry problem: “okay” gets called “excellent” without real feedback.• Healthy hustle is intention-led: values/archetype → mindsets → tactics.
Timestamps00:00 Intro + meeting after connecting online01:15 “What makes you, you?” → the Sales Witch identity shift03:18 Sales origins + how “Sales Witch” came to life04:40 From quota to training (Sandler, MEDDIC, enablement)08:51 Burnout: why we don’t see it until we hit it10:30 Meghann’s burnout moment + leave of absence13:00 Jolie’s burnout signals + recalibrating expectations15:28 Somatics + chakras: where stress lives in the body19:15 Tarot + the “death card” year: endings as doorways21:48 Healing tools, dissociation, and why recovery isn’t fast27:25 SaaS truth: feedback, pipeline honesty, and “okay” culture33:06 Hustle culture as a slippery slope38:35 Healthy hustle example: intention → tactics49:53 LinkedIn framework: value vs growth vs brand56:21 Where to find Meghann
Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number.
LinksMeghann Misiak: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megmisiak/Path to President's Club: https://www.pathtopresidentsclub.com/Sandler Training: https://www.sandler.com/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

It Doesn’t Have to Be This Hard | Claude Silver, Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX

From a 93‑day Outward Bound in the Colorado Rockies to hiding her sexuality at work and now holding impossible DEI conversations as Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX, Claude Silver shares why being yourself at work is both risky and necessary: change the song in your head, remove shame, add tenderness, and stop asking humans to act like machines.
Key Takeaways• Back‑nine season: joyful service, big heart, total goofball.• Wilderness wake‑up: 93‑day Outward Bound → “get another song in your head.”• Dyslexia turned from school pain into one of her superpowers.• Hiding that she was gay at work led to shame and a fragmented life.• Emotional optimism: feelings as data for hard DEI + culture conversations.• The weight of “impossible” topics (racism, Oct 7) as a white Jewish leader.• Macro: remove shame, add tenderness; let people be “normally messy” at work.• Goal isn’t “I love myself” overnight, just helping people get to “I like myself.”
Timestamps00:00 Intro01:20 “Who are you in this season?”, back nine, joyful service, goofball02:10 Taurus energy, love of human behavior, and being Chief Heart Officer03:30 Telling Gary V she’d write a book & why Be Yourself at Work exists05:30 93‑day Outward Bound story & “you better get another song in your head”09:05 Colorado / Leadville / Denver and mountain metaphors10:40 Learning differences: dyslexia, dyscalculia, school pain → superpower12:20 Abandoning herself by hiding she was gay at work; shame and a double life18:01 Brutal DEI day: emotional optimism, accountability, and a hard convo.24:50 The weight of “impossible” topics as a white Jewish leader32:52 Macro vision: Helping people get to “I like myself.”37:48 Where to find Claude
Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number.
LinksClaude Silver: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casilver/Be Yourself at Work: https://www.claudesilver.com/bookVaynerX: https://vaynerx.com/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Don’t Be an Asshole | Ryan Barry, CEO of Appcues

From “fourth child” dad and self-described Peter Pan to tech executive navigating LinkedIn doom scrolls and shifting markets, Ryan Barry shares how playfulness and discipline can coexist: keep your values simple (be kind, work hard, don’t be an asshole), protect your energy, and stay present enough to lead at work and at home without burning out.
Key Takeaways• Simple family rulebook: find what makes you happy, work hard, don’t be an asshole.• Lower-middle-class roots = inclusivity, big table, relentless work ethic.• Hustle got him far, but unchecked hustle leads straight to burnout.• Boundaries are fluid: “WiFi’s broken” days, phone-free time, walks and hikes.• Limit the doom scroll: LinkedIn morning + night; learn more from real conversations.• Presence over pretending: if you can’t be fully there, step away.• Name the “flood”: walks, breathing, and simple meditation to reset (and teach his kids).
Timestamps00:00 Intro / “What makes you you?”02:00 Peter Pan adulthood, fatherhood, and shifting priorities06:00 Family values: happy, hardworking, and not being an asshole09:30 Lower-middle-class upbringing, immigrant mom, construction-worker dad, inclusivity14:00 Tech, LinkedIn doom scroll, and the comparison trap18:30 Boundaries: WiFi-free Saturdays, nature, fewer meetings, more white space23:00 Presence, energy, and how his mood impacts the whole company27:30 Flood moments, ADHD, anxiety tools, and meditating with his son31:30 Executive coaching, burnout, and not wanting to be “60 and lonely”34:00 Where to find Ryan
Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number.
LinksRyan Barry: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-barry-8354036/Appcues: https://www.appcues.com/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Own the Seat You Choose | Warren Zenna, Founder of The CRO Collective

From CRO burnout and impostor syndrome to AI “bionics” and bot‑to‑bot buying, CRO Collective founder Warren Zenna argues that work is a choice, not a sentence: own the role you’re in, get honest about fit, build real competence, and lean on people so you don’t do it alone. He and Jolie riff on why stepping out of the seat isn't failure, what the CRO job actually demands, and how to know whether the seat you're in is still yours.
Key Takeaways• Burnout = fit + ownership: you chose the role; change how you work or leave.• Success is a weak teacher; a misfit CRO stint clarified he’s a better coach.• Impostor syndrome drives overwork, weak hires, and reluctance to delegate.• Teams mirror leaders: blame and politics usually signal dodged responsibility.• Competence + communication: be excellent at your craft and at explaining it.• AI as bionics, not a mask: tools amplify you, but you still “pay the piper.”• Grounding > grinding: relationships, sleep, food, and movement keep you sane.
Timestamps00:00 Intro /“What makes you you?”01:10 Parents, genetics, culture & identity03:20 CRO burnout, fit, and “no victims”08:10 Why the CRO role wasn’t for Warren10:30 Coaching CROs: impostor syndrome & self‑sabotage14:40 Leadership, responsibility, and political cultures16:40 What great CROs and companies do differently19:20 AI as bionics vs. fake competence26:00 AI agents in sales & bot‑to‑bot buying30:00 Staying grounded: people, self‑care, responsibility for others32:20 Why he built The CRO Collective / where to find Warren
Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number.
LinksWarren Zenna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/warrenz/The CRO Collective: https://thecrocollective.com/Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Make a Game You Can Win | Chris Savage, Co-Founder & CEO of Wistia

From live-recording on Wistia’s new (beta) platform to reframing “failure,” funding, and mental fitness, Wistia cofounder/CEO Chris Savage shares how creative optimism and long horizons build durable companies: pick problems worth working on for years, listen hard, ship again, and design recovery so you don’t burn out.
Key Takeaways• Failure vs feedback: crickets → quit; caring feedback → iterate.• Choose a winnable game: align funding with your tempo (not “triple-triple-double”).• Small + patient can be an edge; timing is often slower than you think.• Recovery is a strategy: daily workouts ↑ stress capacity; delegate to protect energy.• Lead (and parent) by modeling: behavior ripples through teams.• Honesty compounds trust: own mistakes publicly and flip them into loyalty.• Use customers’ language; expect spike-drop-rebuild post-launch.
Timestamps00:00 Intro / “What makes you you?”02:00 UX tips: Stage view, pop-out, device-switch quirks05:20 “What makes you you?”, optimistic, excitable, pathfinding08:30 Failure vs. feedback; when to persist vs. walk away10:45 Webinars pivot: acquire → rebuild → months of low trials/no retention15:10 Funding fit & expectations: bootstrapped + debt buyback; different game18:30 Near-sale (2017) → “pretend we sold”: vacations, delegation, balance22:40 Stress & recovery: daily workouts, capacity, team leverage (oxygen-mask rule)26:00 Modeling at home & work; radical honesty (“we messed up” email)29:30 Wistia's success: right macro shift, patience, culture; be your own best customer33:00 Launch reality: spike → drop → compounding touchpoints34:30 Where to find Chris
Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number.
LinksChris Savage: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjsavage/Wistia: https://wistia.com/Talking Too Loud Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-too-loud-with-chris-savage/id1525785118The Art of Learning: https://www.joshwaitzkin.com/the-art-of-learningJolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/